What I Heard From A Facebook Discussion about Abortion. I want to vomit.
I learned how little value life is to 'most' people. I am so bothered by this I need to unload. That's why I write, to get it out.
The question was this:
' Do you support a woman killing the baby inside of her against the fathers wishes? Separating him from his child forever? '
I read
I posted
I was bashed repeatedly
I won't call all pro-choicer's liberals, but many are and I find they are young and stupid, they lie and twist, and highly sensitive to the degree they insult and belittle anyone who disagrees and yet they lack any empathy for anyone or thing but themselves. There will never be wisdom in these creatures because to be a 'wise-man' they would have to first 'listen' and the ears of liberals need to be cleaned out.
Arguments made by pro-choice:
1 The male's desire is irrelevant. He has no more say than what the pregnant woman wants him to have.
2 "don't support mandatory invasive medical care". (same person) do you support state enforced medical donations to another against one's will? (and) Can't wait for the law that requires bodily donations and blood for any babies in the NICU. Hell, we can probably even demand breast milk tithes for the real sick ones.
3 Yes. Bodily autonomy trumps paternal rights.
4 You are asking us to donate everything we have for nine whole months, not just a kidney where you will recover in 6 weeks. The Fetus uses our whole bodies, everything we eat, drink, inhale is donated to the fetus.
5 A woman may choose to terminate a pregnancy against the objections of the father. The legal reasoning for this is twofold, based on a woman's right to privacy in her medical decisions, and in the fact that the mother is more directly affected by pregnancy. (She then rambles the law unaware the question was directed towards the personal reasons a person decides one way or the other).
6 You’re assuming I’m the “liberal” when in fact all I did was point out the flaw in aligning the thought of abortion and the whole immigration debate. (Now transforming the question towards another, immigration. This has nothing to do with the question. After being told it was not part of the question she continues to confuse the topic ') The issue of paternal right pertaining to abortion and the logic, legal reasoning applies only to that aspect. These same sets of legal arguments are completely separate from paternal rights once a child is born and more so once the focus is changed to immigration. To allow a debate and commingle the two only muddles the facts.'
7 (same girl as #6 who is a blooming idiot! ) "Law is law. Law is at its base is based on an universal morality. "
8 A fetus is not a family
9 Abortion is not a family issue. It IS a woman’s rights issue.
10 I made my husband promise to love him for me, because I felt, at that moment that I could not love this child because of all the pain he put me through. (In favor of abortion due to delivery pain)
11 Then the father should have discussed fully with the mother before sex whether, in the event of a pregnancy, she would want to carry the baby to term. You seem to think contraception is the woman’s job . (In the perfect world I guess couples would before having sex)
12 So morally the right of the father trump the right of the woman? Please let me implant a bundle of cells that would develop into a living creature into you and demand you keep it for moral reasons as my desire to see this thing come to life is more valid than your objection .
13 A woman will only go for abortion if something is wrong, either with her health or, for example, with the relationship. And yes, it is HER body and the main decision is on HER. Before, as a man, you place your semen, willingly or unwillingly, inside a woman you should have shown responsibility. (Another uninformed idiot)
14 IF YOU DIDN’T WANT THE POSSIBILITY OF AN ABORTION, YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE HAD SEX. WOMEN AREN’T YOUR HERB GARDENS, YOU LITTLE GREMLIN. (Has to be liberal and taking all responsibility away from the woman)
15 What child? What baby? Most abortions take place way before a fetus has the neural development to be a person or even feel pain. (This is no longer true. Abortions take place at 16 weeks (a fetus will suck it's thumb) and as high as 6 months)
16 Pregnancy is not merely an inconvenience, it can be life threatening at most and deeply unpleasant at least.
17 Whatever a woman chooses to do with her body is ultimately up to her.
18 A child cannot be compared to a fetus that has no awareness of its surroundings (and from another in agreement) Babies and children have the ability to feel frightened and experience pain, a fetus does not
19 We are not killing them, we are merely refusing to be a host.
20 I don’t see a fetus as equal to a baby or child.
21 After years and years of oppression why try and take women’s rights away?
22 Forcing a mother to be an incubator for 9 months for *your* convenience is immoral
23 The father cannot grow the baby, therefore he cannot have a say.
24 You are not the one who suffers severely for 9 months and then has physical and mental repercussions for the rest of their life. So butt out. (Responding to a male pro-lifer. Apparently pregnancy & birth scar woman for life)
25 If you want to ban abortions, or persuade women not to have abortions then you should be for forcible organ donation to save another’s life. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
26 You seem to suffer from an all too common self-centered male entitlement syndrome (Responding to a male pro-lifer)
27 We are talking about fetuses. A man has no rights to a fetus. A man has no right to force a woman to gestate.
28 No one should be forced to use their blood and organs to keep someone else alive.
29 Bodily autonomy trumps parental rights.
30 A zygote is not a child
31 left's talking points are rarely based on fact, only emotions. ( a pro-choice vrs pro-life)
32 there is no baby. A fifteen week fetus has a brain the size of a rabbit’s, not even fully developed. It’s not conscious as we are. It. Any feel pain. (Then why are they sucking their thumb for comfort at this stage of developement?)
33 Abortion is nothing more than getting rid something out of the body..ie virus
34 Clump of cells =/= baby
35 A nonsentient fetus who is physically dependent on the woman for survival is removed from a uterus.
36 1. A fetus isn’t a child and a pregnancy doesn’t make anyone a parent. 2. A pregnancy has nothing to do with a man because it’s not his bod the fetus uses
37 Of fucking course I do. The opposite allows the man to gain control over the woman's body.
38 The rights of the fetus do not supersede those of the woman it is growing inside of
39 Can you define your understanding of the legal term "murder" for me? Hint: it involves an unlawful act.
40 A fetus becomes a baby when it's born, but that's neither here nor there. A fetus is not comparable to the treatment of a born child
41 That if a man veto’s a woman's decision to abort, he is effectively exerting control over her body.
42 If you have sex with a woman, then unless a child is born, that’s it. Just because you ejaculate in someone doesn’t make them your slave, not matter what your Internet History tells you
43 Bringing a pregnancy to terms is therefore not a consequence of sex. It's a consequence of the woman's desire to bring it to terms. (Responding to my comment about consequences of having sex)
44 It is most definitely about me. Pregnancies can be dangerous, they are very cumbersome, they are painful, they get in the way of a career, sometimes require surgery to be performed, which leaves scars, they change a woman's body enough that traces of it will always remain. There are reasons a woman might not want some or any of this. The opinion of the man's value is only as much as the pregnant woman wants it to be. If she decides it's got no value, then the man's opinion on the pregnancy will be valueless. You have NO say other than what she wants you to have.
45 If a man wants a say in whether or not a woman gets to have an abortion, he should do so by keeping his dick in his pants. (Again woman have no responsibility)
46 It does interrupt your school and your work. Multiple doctor's appointments. Multiple blood screenings. Hours of time lost from work or school. And that's just to bring the fetus to term. Then there is the whole being denied a job or being passed over for promotions because you're pregnant. Or even better, being fired for being pregnant. Then there's that whole birthing of the child and time off to recover.
47 Personally, were I, by some freak accident become pregnant, I'd be scared of scaring, of stretch marks especially and I'd be scared of what would happen to my breasts. I've seen many women recover very well from pregnancy but I see it as a quite a gamble to take. Why should I take it if I don't want the child? I would also much dislike the discomfort I would have to endure for several months.. for something I don't want. No. I would get an abortion, as early as I can.
48 I'm 30 and have zero experience with pregnancy. The nature of my sexual life leaves little chance for it to happen without me really desiring it. Which I don't. (What right does a childless lesbian have commenting on abortion at all?)
49 It would be unwise to have children when you don't want them because you might regret never having them later
50 The father has no more right to force a woman to remain pregnant against her will than the state does.
Arguments made by Pro-Lifer:
1 Abortion should be permitted only when necessary to end the life of the mother
2 It's clearly a family issue if the father doesn't want his child killed..
3 You spend 9 very short months to give a life 90 years and are able to give that life to his/her father to be loved and cared for, who is that woman to take away those years from TWO people vs. her selfish ass! (I said that)
4 The woman has the right to do what she wants to her body, but she's gotta be a real POS to do that to her husband who really wants a child (Regarding the rights by LAW.)
5 my role as a mother is to love and protect my children, regardless of my "suffering"...it is not my role to kill my children.
6 prove a 12 week old fetus can't feel.
7 Its the taking of an innocent life
8 You're freedom stops when it trampled on another's. That's morally consistent. (Again woman's right to chose over the fathers)
9 I don't think of the ability to produce future leaders, artists, musicians, teachers etc as an oppression or enslavement...I see this as my greatest power as a woman.
10 Nothing empowering about being subliminally tricked into killing your child under the guise of women's rights.
11 It isn't hard to carry a baby! You sound like the baby will take your soul with it when it comes out. It isn't surgery either. People have babies in cars, on the plane, it is natural. I don't want to hear how dangerous it is. three at home born and 2 with no doc visits at all. My son delivered his twins because they didn't want the C-section the doctor would have made his wife have as 'procedure' because one is usually breech. She pushed a breech baby out without an issue. STOP saying pregnancy and birth are dangerous (I said this)
12 A nine month old child (In the womb) is a child that was BORN nine months ago
13 So a woman should say abort because the baby uses her blood to support it? I assure you she won't feel it. Do you know that many woman are stricken with guilt years later and some have become sterile during the abortion? There is a psychological and physical danger to having an abortion . (Me again)
14 it has its own DNA, own heart, own brain, own body... Seems pretty damn human to me... I bet if we took a DNA test it would come back as human... and considering 1/2 that DNA was supplied by another human that person should have a say
15 From the moment we are conceived to the moment we die, we're all in some stage of development. we're only actively "growing" until the end of puberty, but even then we're still developing. Killing a human at an earlier stage is no more valid than at a later stage
16 its not about man gaining control, its about another human having the right not to be murdered
17 Yes the rights of the Baby does supersede the mother... because one results in death, the other does not
18 Here is another accepted definition for Merriam/Webster : to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously
19 A fetus is absolutely a baby by law in several cases. Most notably if a pregnant woman is killed, it is counted as a double homicide
20 How the hell does a man have control over a woman's body? So the baby only represents a power struggle? You should lose a child you want one day while in your womb and see if you don't change your mind. (I said that)
21 The woman sure didn't complain when she let him in to plant that baby, did she? Now she complains because of those consequences? (I said that)
22 It isn't slavery and it's not about you. It is about 9 months for a life. All you guys that are pro just think in terms of power. There is more power in giving life than taking it. Pregnancy is a consequence of sex. A man who wants his baby is also part of that consequence. (I said this)
23 The cost one pays, possibly I should say, if they forgo having children. It can from what I can tell lead to a lonely and unfulfilling life. That’s a cost that can’t be measured in dollars
24 If your married you should want the baby I think or maybe you shouldn't be married. If your single, give him the baby to raise. At least the baby has a chance. (I said this)
25 Here is an argument that supersedes any of man's law and current physical state of a fetus at any stage. 'Love' Knowing what it will become and what it can do in the world. Love does not destroy, love is hope, love is selfless. But 'love' has been pushed aside and excluded. In fact, love is why a person chose’s to nurture the hope they carry. (I said that too)
Summery
I learned how detached people are. How self centered they are. They hide behind law when talking about their morals. They change the subject to compare rather than answer the question. They place the appearance of their body above the body they might carry. They express hatred for what they deem is the baby's fault for discomfort and pain. They think it is as dangerous as having cancer.
Their arguments, every one of them, left no room to consider any other person but themselves or the woman they refer to as a mere host. As the Bible told us 'there will be a generation with out love' I do see where the Bible is accurate yet again, proving also that they will answer to God one day. While they were able to use Immigration, Organ Donor, laws, and blame the baby and men the pro lifers could not bring up GOD in their defense. They humiliated the opposition with the idea that pro-lifers use emotion and not fact. (Love is a our fact)
Although I corrected most of the spelling here they could not even spell fetus correctly, they spelled it 'feotus' each one of them each time while pointing out misused or incorrect spelling of a pro-lifer. The attempted to expose the pro-lifer as stupid by doing this and with me announced my beliefs in things not relevant to the question by looking and suggesting others look at my facebook page to see how 'crazy' I was. This is a very desperate attempt to discredit anything I had said.
What they don't know about me is that I had eight children, 3 home births. I bared a still born and I gave a child up for adoption when I knew after my divorce and being irresponsible, I could not provide financially for a seventh living child while working sixty hours a week as a single parent. I did not abort. I found people who were with out children. I worked until the very day I started labor waitressing and was back to work four days later. There arguments are excuses and all I hear is that they don't want to and don't have to. Well I didn't either. But I did. I did it because it was my responsibility. This is what being responsible is. Not getting a promotion or looking good or simply supporting oneself. It is about taking care of others no matter the cost in the end or how difficult it may be.
This is a generation of wimps and sissies. Not one of them are as strong as my generation. Let them ramble excuses and why they won't do anything if they get nothing in return while we get the job done with something in return you can't touch or see. The reward comes when you make others happy, like when the woman you give your newborn to cries in disbelief that though she is barren she was now a mother , and you know God had your back! They will never understand that feeling and I pity them.
Pro-choice doubled in their remarks defending what they said at 50 compared to pro-lifers at 25 . As you can see we did not need to say much. Theirs were excuses while pro lifers did in fact express what life is, what makes it go round smoothly and what everyone should strive for and this is to be caring, loving, protective and consideration not for the parents but for the only innocent in this controversy, the baby.
They say a baby at six months old cannot say words. They babble baby talk. But I beg to differ. Let me introduce you to my grandson . This is what a pro-choicer considers a clump of cells, a virus, something that just purposely causes discomfort and pain while stopping them from advancing in their lives. How can anyone see this as insignificant at any stage of development. He says 'Hi' when I walked in and 'ya' when asked a question. He's learning tricks and his smile never wavers.